Alumni Interview with Kramay Patel (1T6)

Could you please introduce yourself, including where you are from, when you graduated from EngSci and a quick history of your career and experiences since you graduated?

I was born in India, and I moved to Canada in 2006 when I was about 12 years old. Since then I’ve been in and around Toronto. I started undergrad at U of T in EngSci in 2012 and graduated in 2016. After graduating from EngSci I enrolled in the MD/PhD program also in U of T, and I’m currently pursuing both my MD and my PhD. I’m currently in the fourth year of the program, so I’m hopefully in the final year of my PhD after which I’ll go back and finish the rest of medical school and then go on to pursue that career.

That is really cool. What is the topic of your PhD?

My PhD is at the intersection of neuroscience and biomedical engineering. It has to do with trying to see if we can teach people to control their own brain activity, which kind of sounds like voodoo. But you can think of it almost like meditation or mindfulness, where you’re trying to self-regulate or be aware of what your brain activity is like. It’s more from the neuroscience perspective of “why that’s possible,” what brain networks facilitate that kind of control” and “what its potential applications could be in health care,” or even just to try and understand the brain at a more granular level.

Going way back to the start of your time at U of T, how was your initial transition from high school to Engineering Science? What were your first impressions of EngSci and U of T?

To be honest, going into EngSci I was pretty scared. I think everyone does a pretty great job at scaring you coming in. It’s an incredibly hard program, and people were telling me, “Expect your grades to drop 20% compared to what they were in high school.” But I think my high school did a pretty decent job preparing me for that experience. Predominantly, I found that soft skills were important – like having a good work ethic and being able to put in the time and effort that it takes to succeed. That stuff was the most important and I was fortunate enough to have those skills going in. My grades didn’t drop as much as I expected, but that was largely because first year EngSci is a lot of math and a lot of calculus. Having a decent background in calculus from high school helped me quite a bit. Even though there’s just two calc courses, there’s a ton of courses like CIV102 and Physics that use calc and applications of calc. If you don’t know the basics or fundamentals, it’s difficult to succeed in those courses. I was fortunate to have that background going into it. Even having that background, like I mentioned, those soft skills – work ethic and time management – are important. Those were the key to success in the first two years of EngSci, at least for me.

You grew up and went to High School in the GTA – did you commute or stay in residence during your first year? How did that affect your experience?

I wanted to stay in residence, but my dad was in the US and my mom was home alone at the time, so I decided to commute from home. We used to live all the way out in Woodbridge, which is like an hour-and-a-half commute, which was rough in first year. It was about 2-3 hours of commuting a day. Second year onwards my dad moved back, so I was able to get an apartment with a friend, stay downtown and go from there. That was definitely a lot easier. As a result, in my first year I was unable to live in residence, which is something I wanted to do. I also wasn’t able to get involved in the community as much as I would’ve liked. That changed quite a bit after I moved downtown, because there was just more time. Also, you’re closer to campus so that you can stay later at night or come earlier in the morning. That opens things up quite a bit. Looking back, if I had the opportunity, I would’ve liked to have gotten that residence life experience, because I think I always envied that from my friends.

What do you think was the academic effect of commuting on you?

I’d be lying if I said it didn’t make it harder. That’s three hours of your day that’s gone, and not everyone’s great at studying during the commute. In Toronto especially, the commute is not trivial. Buses are packed and what not, and it’s always rush hour. First year EngSci isn’t just like 9-12 in the morning, you know: it’s 9-6, so you’re always commuting when it’s rush hour, early in the mornings and late in the evenings. I remember I tried to sleep during the commutes and then use those extra hours of sleep at night to study instead, so that was the way I coped with it. It is possible to manage. I have friends that commuted all four years, so it’s entirely possible, but it makes it harder to do well at academics and be involved at the same time. It’s worth noting that my case was an extreme case – most students don’t commute an hour-and-a-half – that’s pretty extreme. I think a 30-minute commute is totally reasonable and not out of the ordinary. When I lived downtown I spent 30 minutes watching TV or whatever, so that would be the same as a commute. It’s manageable if it’s a shorter amount of time.

Do you have any specific stories that stuck with you from your time in EngSci that you like to tell?

I mean, I had so many fun experiences. One of my favourite experiences was starting a robotics team at U of T called Robotics for Space Exploration. A few friends and I started that team in my second year, and at that time there were just the five of us. We had no money, no funding, no support and no lab space, and we wanted to compete in this international competition called the University Rover Challenge. We had to design and build a Mars Rover and take it to Hanksville, Utah, for a three-day competition. Despite having no money, we put together this rover that weighed more than 50kg, and then realized that we had to somehow transport it to Utah. So a few days before the competition, we took it all apart and packed it in our suitcases. At the airport, we checked in these three suitcases filled with rockers, bogies, wheels, electronics, hand tools, power tools and everything else you can possibly imagine. After some missed flights and some lost luggage, when we finally got to Salt Lake City, we had to fit the five of us, all of our personal bags and our three check-in bags into this tiny rental car (because that’s all we could afford) and lug it to the middle of nowhere, which is where the competition was. That was probably the highlight of second year, and one of the highlights of my undergrad experience. RSX has come a long way since then, but those roots were a ton of fun. We had pretty much no money, maybe $1,000, and every other team had maybe $30,000 to work with. It was fun.

I was the president of the club the last year that I was involved which was also my first year of med school. I think our budget was like $35,000 or something like that, and we had about 50 members. So we’ve definitely come a long way since then, but the beginnings were very humble and very fun.

Were those mainly friends from EngSci?

Yeah! 4/5 of us that really started it were EngScis. One of us was an ECE.

What encouraged you to start that club? Was there a specific trigger or event that made you think, “Ok, let’s start this”?

I think it was just that I didn’t do anything in first year at all. Then, I had some friends that were interested in starting it and I thought, “Oh yeah, I’d love to get involved too!” It was mainly spur of the moment. I wasn’t a fan of space or anything at the time, but my friends were, and it was a pretty cool intersection. It just went on from there!

Did you have a favourite course or subject in the foundation years of EngSci? Conversely, did you have a least favourite course or subject?

Lots of favourites. I really liked math going into EngSci, so I liked a whole bunch of courses. The best was probably AER201 [now ESC204]; it’s the second-year design course (Praxis III). That was a lot of fun, because it’s a very hands-on, practical course. [Side note: In this course, you will get to explore concepts related to mechatronics and Internet of Things (IoT) to build your designs!] My least favourite was probably Praxis I. I’ve never really liked languages, and I think Praxis was a lot of communication and writing. I was never a fan of that. It’s also an engineering design course, so I tried to focus more on the engineering aspects of the course and find some joy there and not to worry too much about the communication aspects. That went ok, but that was the hardest course to keep myself motivated for. 

Once you specialized in third and fourth year, and even once you specialized further in graduate school, did you find that you were able to avoid subjects you didn’t like, or did they follow you through your education and career?

I think Praxis in general is difficult because in high school, communication and English is taught in this very literary and artistic way, where you’re expressing yourself almost creatively. This is opposed to engineering communication, where you are very efficient. You are taught to communicate as much as you can in as few words as possible. That transition is difficult, but now that I’m in academia and have to do it on a regular basis, those kinds of things are natural and second nature to me. Now if you were to tell me to take a high school course analyzing Shakespeare, that would be a nightmare. There are definitely fewer and fewer courses that you don’t like as you specialize more, just because you end up taking courses you’re interested in. That’s not to say that there weren’t courses in third year that I wasn’t a fan of. You still find a way of using the other courses as motivation to keep doing well. At some point or another, in some way or another, you’ll end up using interesting and not-interesting course material regardless.

You had a really great quote as part of your feature in the U of T Boundless campaign, that went something like, “At U of T, you learn things that you just can’t in other environments.” [referring to the unique blend of culture, education, and research at this school] How do you think EngSci and U of T have affected your life differently than another engineering program or university might have?

I mean, the advantage of U of T is that it’s huge. Some people might consider that a disadvantage, but just the amount of things that you can possibly do at U of T and EngSci is unmatched by any other program, at least in Canada. The diversity of the faculty and students creates this unique blend of experiences that you can dabble in; you can go from a philosophy club while you’re in engineering right to hard core space robotics. On top of that, in EngSci in particular, you’re surrounded by these incredibly smart people. That obviously enriches your experience, even just being able to talk to these people on a day-to-day basis. Even more than that, everytime someone asks me about EngSci, I say, “Even if you forget every single thing you learn from EngSci, which some people might, the thing that stays with you is the work ethic that you build through that program.” It’s not an exaggeration when people say it’s incredibly difficult. It is incredibly difficult. But, having gone through that, there aren’t many things afterwards in life that you look at and say, “Oh my god, this is harder than EngSci was,” because there’s not a lot of things that are. Especially the first couple years of EngSci. So, you get used to having a good work ethic, being efficient with your time: these soft skills that you unknowingly develop going through that four year program, even if it feels like a slog at times. On top of that, the last thing I’d say is that the faculty at U of T is really great. People are world-renowned experts in their fields. You’ll be able to learn from the best of the best which allows you to figure out what you like, what you dislike and what area to specialize in. Regardless of what program you are enrolled in, or what courses you are taking, the number of extracurriculars that are available and the faculty that’s available to you is so massive that one way or the other you end up finding something that really clicks for you.

How was your experience applying to grad school and being in grad school since you finished EngSci?

EngSci introduces you to a lot. That’s the whole point of the initial foundation years. You dabble your feet in a lot of different areas, so you’re able to have a base level of literacy in a lot of different areas that you can then apply your expertise in. That definitely helps. Being well-rounded is something that EngSci prepares you for. The other thing I think EngSci prepares you really well for is academia in general. If you’re interested in pursuing grad school of any sort, I think EngSci is a fantastic option. This is because the science is really emphasized throughout the program regardless of what your major is. If you want to become an area expert in any one particular field, EngSci is a tremendous option because it has a lot of research, academia and science integrated into any course you take. Even if you’re taking calculus, EngSci Calculus is different from other engineering calculi. It’s a lot more theoretical and down to the fundamentals, and it teaches you everything from the ground up, to question things and to ask “why” more than other programs might be. And that really helps in academia, because that’s what science is all about: asking those difficult questions. EngSci does an incredible job preparing you for that type of future. Even in terms of reputation, I think in all the programs that I’ve applied to, most people have been familiar with EngSci as a program that prepares students well for academia, not just in Canada but also in the US.

What is one thing that you would tell yourself if you were starting your undergraduate degree in EngSci this year?

In general, going back to first-year EngSci, honestly, there’s not a lot I would change about my experience. I loved my undergrad experience. I would try to find more time in first year to get involved, but it was hard like I mentioned simply because of the commute and all that. I didn’t really have any time to get involved, but if I could go back and change that, I probably would. At the same time I would tell myself, and others, to not worry too much. Those kinds of extracurriculars come naturally. I remember in first year I signed up for 30 clubs at my first clubs fair, and I didn’t go for a single meeting, simply because I was so overwhelmed with the commuting and the coursework and things like that. At times I felt guilty about “oh, I wasn’t able to do this” and “oh, I wasn’t able to do that.” But it worked out just fine. Just try your best to get involved and it’s fine because things will happen organically. Just make sure to push yourself outside of your bubble and your comfort zone, and make sure there’s a life outside of the classroom. That will really, really enrich your experience. If I hadn’t done RSX, or any of the other clubs that I was involved with, I’m confident that I wouldn’t be where I am today or have half the experiences that I have today. There’s a whole world outside of the classroom to explore. And, with U of T and Toronto, you’re in such a fantastic environment that you would really miss out if you didn’t explore that. That’s what I would tell myself, and anyone else joining the program.